Excerpts From Testimony About Lewinsky and Her Search for a Job

WASHINGTON -- In his report to the House, Kenneth Starr, the independent counsel, cited "substantial and credible information that President Clinton endeavored to obstruct justice" by helping Ms. Lewinsky obtain a job while she was a potential witness in the Jones case. Starr's office questioned several witnesses on those points over months of Grand Jury proceedings. Here are excerpts from the testimony of some of the witnesses, some made public Sept 21, some Friday by the House Judiciary Committee.
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Deputy Chief of Staff
Before the Grand Jury
Feb. 5, 1998

Q.: Do you recall any conversations, or do you recall ever having conversations with anyone about Monica Lewinsky?

A.: Yes.

Q.: All right. And with whom, as best you recollect, were those conversations with?

A.: I initially had a conversation which I can't place precisely, but I would say late in the spring or early in the summer, initially with Mr. Bowles. ... Mr. Bowles said to me that in conversation he had with the president that Ms. Lewinsky's name had come up. That she was a friend of Ms. Currie's, that she had worked at the White House, and that she -- Ms. Currie had been in touch with her -- well, I'm forwarding to it -- I think that was a subsequent conversation.

Q.: O.K.

A.: That she was a friend of Ms. Currie's, that she had worked in the White House, that she had been sent over to work in the Pentagon. That she was unhappy that had happened, and thought that she hadn't been treated fairly in that job move. And that could he look into it. ...

Q.: Could you tell us, was there a subsequent -- some subsequent activity in the fall of -- approximately in the fall of 1997 that related to Ms. or Miss Lewinsky?

A.: Yes.

Q.: And can you explain to the grand jury what that involved?

A.: This time Ms. Currie approached me directly, and -- and had a conversation with me. And reminded me who Ms. Lewinsky was. That she was her friend from the Pentagon. And told me that she was moving to New York. ... And asked me whether I could give her any referrals of any people she could talk to about getting a job in New York. ...

Q.: Did you do something?

A.: I did something.

Q.: O.K. And what was that?

A.: Shortly after that conversation -- so I would place that conversation in early October -- the president took a trip to South America. I was running that trip -- if you will -- as the traveling chief of staff on the trip. And during the course of that trip, I talked to Ambassador Richardson, from the U.N. ... But in the context of talking to Ambassador Richardson, who also I have known for a while and is a friend of mine, I raised the fact that Ms. Currie had a friend who was moving to New York, who was a low-level, entry-level public affairs person, and did he -- could he take a look at her.

United Nations Ambassador
Before the Grand Jury
April 30, 1998

Q.: What is the first time that you learned about someone that you later learned, or at the time learned, was Monica Lewinsky?

A.: Well, I believe that the first time this matter came up was in one of the meetings at the White House, or somewhere in the vicinity of where we have our meetings in the White House. John Podesta, who is the deputy press secretary, asked me if I would interview a person that was a friend of Betty Currie's for a position in New York, because the person, according to John, was moving to New York.

That was the first time. I believe it was early October. ...

Q.: And what, as best you can recall, did he tell you?

A.: I think words were, "There's a person I'd like you to interview for a position in New York; this person is moving there, and she's a friend of Betty Currie's." And I said, "Well, what's her name?" He says, "I don't know, but I'd appreciate if you would just interview her." ...

Q.: Did you take -- did you interpret whatever words Mr. Podesta used with you as a recommendation?

A.: No. I interpreted it simply as a courtesy request for an interview, which I get all the time from many people. ...

Q.: Have you had any communication at any time, up to the present, with Mr. Jordan either directly or indirectly about anything related to Monica Lewinsky, the job hunt, the Paula Jones case, or any of that?

A.: No.

Q.: Have you had any communication up to the present, directly or indirectly, with the president --

A.: No, none whatsoever.

Q.: -- about any of those topics?

A.: The president and I have never discussed Monica Lewinsky or Paula Jones. Never.

Q.: Or the fact that you were involved in offering her a job and interviewing her?

A.: No. We have not discussed it whatsoever.

The President's Secretary
Before the Grand Jury
May 6, 1998

Q.: You remember talking to Monica about getting a job in New York.

A.: I do.

Q.: And Vernon Jordan was aware of that, and Vernon Jordan helped her.

A.: Correct.

Q.: And the president was aware that Monica was looking for a job in New York.

A.: I think so. I'm not positive, not sure.

Q.: O.K. Are you saying you didn't talk to the president about Monica looking for a job in New York?

A.: I don't remember. I probably did. I don't remember.

Q .: Didn't the president ask you to help Monica?

A.: Get a job?

Q.: Yes.

A.: Yes.

Q.: In New York?

A.: I don't remember. I don't remember.

Q.: After Monica was rejected in terms of coming back to the White House, didn't the president ask you to help Monica with her further job search, wherever it would be?

A.: Probably more like that, wherever I could find to help her. And if I remember correctly, that's when I went to John Podesta.

Q.: Didn't the president suggest that you go to Mr. Podesta?

A.: I don't remember that. John's an old friend of mine.

Q.: I know. You used to work for him many years ago. Didn't the president also suggest Ambassador Richardson, too? That you should contact Ambassador Richardson?

A.: I don't remember him saying that either.

Q.: Well, didn't the president suggest that -- go ahead.

A.: The best I remember is that I went to John and told him I needed help finding a job for a friend. He has connections all over, and the best I remember, he made the connection with Ambassador Richardson.


Q.: Did the president tell you to contact Vernon Jordan to help Monica get the job? Get a job in New York?

A.: I don't remember the President telling me to contact Vernon to help get a job, help Monica get a job.

Q.: What did the president tell you about getting help for Monica?

A. I was doing it on my own. I was dealing with John and Ambassador Richardson, which I thought was moving along fine and that was going to work out fine. And then when she said she didn't want that, then I went to Vernon, who has contacts in New York.

Q.: Were you keeping the president apprised of what you were doing?

A.: I may have been telling him that I'm doing this or the other, but it was not a daily update. Plus, I wasn't working on it daily.

May 14, 1998

A JUROR: This is the third question. Do you know of anyone who ever received, in your lifetime, the number of favorable supports in seeking employment through people like Vernon Jordan, the president, several other people in the White House and yourself included, as one of those important people?

THE WITNESS:. In my lifetime?

A JUROR: Yes, ma'am.

THE WITNESS:. That's a long time. Let me think.

I have heard people tell me that when -- they say that you've approached Vernon for a job. I say, "Yes." They say, "Do you know," the list goes on and on, the people who have approached Vernon for a job.

The fact that Monica did was just minor.

Favorable? I've tried to help many people with jobs. I don't know how far you think I've gone to help them. I haven't had the president's backing on it, so I couldn't go as far as I would like to.


Q.: I think his question is more the number and the high level of the people. That is to say, the president, Podesta, Erskine Bowles, Vernon Jordan, Richardson, yourself, all pulling together to get Monica Lewinsky a job. Who else has had that kind of an effort for them that you're aware of?

A.: And Marsha Scott.

A JUROR: And Marsha Scott.

MR. WISENBERG: Marsha Scott.


Q.: Who else has had that kind of an effort?

A.: I can't think of anyone; but, unfortunately, I think part of it is that I consider these high-level people as being my friends. And their level of importance didn't occur to me. They were just friends who were helping a friend.

The President's Friend
Before the Grand Jury
March 3, 1998

Q.: So first of all, when is the first time that you recall hearing anything about Monica Lewinsky?

A.: Yes. The first time I ever heard the name Monica Lewinsky is when Ms. Betty Currie called me about Monica Lewinsky.

Q.: And can you give us a rough time frame of when that was?

A.: It was early December, I believe. ...

Q.: And where were you, what did she call and say?

A.: I was in my office. Betty Currie called, and she said: "Mr. Jordan, there's a former White House intern, her name is Monica Lewinsky, and she would like and I am requesting your help in finding her a job in New York. She would like to work in the private sector, and would you be helpful?" And I said, "I'm happy to be helpful." ...

Q.: Now, did Betty Currie indicate at all in that conversation that the request was being made on behalf of anyone other than herself or Monica Lewinsky?

A.: She did not. ...

March 5, 1998

Q.: Did Betty Currie in any way, any way whatsoever, connect Ms. Lewinsky's signing of the affidavit to her job search?

A.: No.

Q.: Did anyone else?

A.: No.

Q.: Did anyone ever tell you that something to the effect that Monica had said, "I'm not signing any affidavit until I get a job"?

A.: No.

...= Q.: You learned from -- believe you said Ms. Lewinsky some time between Jan. 8th and Jan. 15th that she had in fact been hired by Revlon. Is that right?

A.: Yes. Right.

Q.: Did you communicate that either directly or indirectly to the president?

A.: I told the president that she had a job. Yes.

Q.: And would it have been some time shortly after you learned that from Ms. Lewinsky?

A.: I don't think I put the phone down and then picked it up, but at some point, I informed the president that my magic had worked, that she had a job.

Q.: It would have been, though, within a day or so of learning?

A.: Absolutely.

Q.: And what was the president's reaction?

A.: The president was grateful; he said thank you.

Q.: When you had that discussion with him, did he say anything else about Ms. Lewinsky?

A.: No.

Q.: When you had that discussion with him, did you speak about any other topics with him? Other than just like greetings?

A.: I have never had a conversation with the president where the subject of Monica Lewinsky was the only subject.


Q.: And do you understand that the reason we're doing this whole line of inquiry is to figure out where you were on Nov. 5th and whether you could have interviewed Monica Lewinsky that day?

A.: That is obvious to me. I obviously, if this is correct, was not in Atlanta.

Q.: And then based upon the fact that the White House records show that you met with the president at 2:00 on Nov. 5th, and coupled with the other documents that we've just shown you, do you believe that you could have met with Monica Lewinsky on Nov. 5th here in Washington, D.C.?

A.: I have no recollection of having met with Monica Lewinsky on Nov. 5th, and unfortunately my calendar does not show that. I have absolutely no recollection of that.

Q.: And let me ask you my question again: Do you believe that you could have met with her?

A.: It is entirely possible. I have no recollection of it.


Q.: Is it your testimony, sir, that in light of that experience, that the fact that you were helping Monica get a job and then you later learned that she was a witness in a case involving the president, that that later addition of information -- that she was a witness in a case against the president -- had no bearing whatsoever on your attitude of how you perceived your being involved in helping her get a job?

A.: Yeah. The Webb Hubbell circumstance and the Monica Lewinsky circumstance are not comparable, No. 1.

No. 2, make whatever judgment you want to make about my effort to help my friend Webb Hubbell, it had absolutely nothing to do with a conversation that I may have had with Ambassador Richardson, who was ambassador to the United Nations.

Q.: O.K. My question, sir, once again is: Is it your testimony, sir -- and let's not focus on Ambassador Richardson. Let's focus on you.

A.: O.K.

Q.: My question, sir, is: After having gone through what you were put through in the Webb Hubbell situation, is it your testimony, sir, that the fact that making calls to, among others, Revlon to help Monica Lewinsky get a job, you later learned that she was a witness in a case against the president: that that additional fact had absolutely no bearing on how you viewed and felt about your being involved trying to get her a job?

A.: Zero.

Q.: And then is that the reason why it did not occur to you to notify Ambassador Richardson of the fact that you later learned -- after knowing he was also helping her get a job -- that she was a witness in a case involving the president?

A.: I am Ambassador Richardson's friend. I'm not his lawyer, No. 1.

No. 2, I made -- it never occurred to me to have this conversation with Ambassador Richardson based on the experience that I had had with Webb Hubbell and Revlon. Zero.

Before the Grand Jury
Aug. 20, 1998

JUROR: Could I ask one? Monica, is there anything that you would like to add to your prior testimony, either today or the last time you were here, or anything that you think needs to be amplified on or clarified? I just want to give you the fullest opportunity.

A.: I would. I think because of the public nature of how this investigation has been and what the charges aired, that I would just like to say that no one ever asked me to lie, and I was never promised a job for my silence.

And that I'm sorry. I'm really sorry for everything that's happened. (The witness begins to cry.) And I hate Linda Tripp.

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