John MARBURY was born about 1413 in Of Cransby, Northampton, England. He died about 1460. He married Eleanor COTTON in Cransby, Northampton, England.
Eleanor COTTON was born about 1418 in Of Cransby, Northampton, England. She married John MARBURY in Cransby, Northampton, England.
They had the following children:
M i Thomas MARBURY was born about 1448 in Of Cransby, Northampton, Eng.. He died about 1513. M ii Robert MARBURY was born about 1450 in Of Cransby, Northampton, Eng.. M iii Robert MARBURY was born about 1450 in Of, Cransby, Northampton, England. He died after 1511. M iv William MARBURY was born about 1446. He died in 1508.
Claribert I (Heribert), Count Of LAON was born about 690 in Of, Laon, Aisne, France. He married Bertrada, Countess Of LAON in 719.
Bertrada, Countess Of LAON was born about 695 in Of, Laon, Aisne, France. She married Claribert I (Heribert), Count Of LAON in 719.
They had the following children:
F i Berthe (Bertrade) Countess Of LAON was born about 720. She died on 12 Jul 783.
Richard I "Coeur De Lion", King Of ENGLAND [Parents] was born on 13 Sep 1157 in Beaumont Palace, Oxford, Oxfordshire, England. He died on 6 Apr 1199 in , Chalus, , France. He was buried in , Fontevrault L'ab, , France. He married Berengaria Princess Of NAVARRE on 12 May 1191 in , Limassol, Limassol, Cyprus.
Berengaria Princess Of NAVARRE [Parents] was born about 1163 in Of, Pampeluna, Navarra, Spain. She died about 1230 in , Abbey De Espans, Sarthe, France. She was buried in , Abbey De Espans, Sarthe, France. She married Richard I "Coeur De Lion", King Of ENGLAND on 12 May 1191 in , Limassol, Limassol, Cyprus.
Guillaume X Duke Of AQUITAINE [Parents] was born in 1099 in , , Aquitaine. He died on 19 Apr 1137 in , , , France. He married Elbeanor De CHATELLERAULT in 1121 in Of, , , France.
Elbeanor De CHATELLERAULT [Parents] was born about 1103 in , Chatellerault, Poitou, Aquitaine. She died after Mar 1130. She married Guillaume X Duke Of AQUITAINE in 1121 in Of, , , France.
They had the following children:
F i Elbeonore Princess Of AQUITAINE was born in 1121/1122. She died on 31 Mar 1204. F ii Alix (Pernelle) De POITIERS was born about 1126 in Of, Aquitaine. She died after 24 Oct 1153. M iii Guillaume "le Hardi" D' AQUITAINE was born about 1124 in Of, Aquitaine. He died before 9 Apr 1137.
Edward IV King Of ENGLAND [Parents] was born on 28 Apr 1442 in , Rouen, Seine-Maritime, France. He was christened in Cathedrale, Rouen, Seine-Maritime, France. He died on 9 Apr 1483 in Palace, Westminster, Middlesex, England. He was buried on 18 Apr 1483 in St. George's Chapel, Windsor, Berkshire, England. He married Elizabeth WYDEVILLE on 1 May 1464 in , Grafton Regis, Northamptonshire, England.
Other marriages:WAYTE, Elizabeth
WAYTE, Elizabeth
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_IV_of_England
From: royalancestry@msn.com (Douglas Richardson)
A few days ago, I posted a list of the known illegitimate children of Edward IV, King of England (died 1483). Since posting, I've been contacted by two newsgroup members each of whom has added a new potential illegitimate child of King Edward IV. On my own, I've found additional sources for two of the previously identified illegitimate children. I've also found a reference to yet another alleged illegitimate daughter in a late visitation who reputedly married into the Musgrave family. I haven't included that child in the list below, as I haven't yet confirmed that such a child and marriage occurred.
If anyone has anything to add to the information below or possesses any information on a possible illegitimate daughter who married a Musgrave, please post that information here on the newsgroup or contact me at my e-mail address below.
Many thanks to Peter Sutton and James Trabue for sharing their information with me.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
E-mail: royalancestry@msn.com
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
List of Illegitimate Children of King Edward IVIllegitimate child of Edward IV of England, by an unknown mistress,
possibly Elizabeth Lucy:i. ELIZABETH PLANTAGENET, married before 1477 THOMAS LUMLEY, Knt., son
and heir apparent of George Lumley, Knt., Lord Lumley, by Elizabeth,
daughter and heiress of Roger Thornton, Esq. They had four sons,
Richard [Lord Lumley], John, George, and Roger, Esq., and three
daughters, Anne (wife of Robert Ogle, 4th Lord Ogle), Sibyl (wife of
William Hilton, Knt., de jure 9th Lord Hylton), and Elizabeth (wife of
Robert Cresswell, Esq.). SIR THOMAS LUMLEY was living 27 Oct. 1495,
and died prior to 1507. Descendants (not traced). [Note: Additional
evidence of Elizabeth's parentage may be seen in the papal
dispensation granted in 1489 for Elizabeth's son, Richard Lumley, to
marry Anne Conyers, they being related in the [3rd and] 4th degree of
kindred. A dispensation was needed for this marriage, as the two
parties were both descended from Ralph Neville, K.G., 1st Earl of
Westmorland, and his wife, Joan Beaufort (see Testamenta Eboracensia 3
(Surtees Soc., vol. 45) (1865): 355)]. Collins-Brydges, Peerage of
England 3 (1812): 703 (citing MS. E. 6, f. 5, b. in Offic. Arm.). R.
Surtees, Hist. & Antiq. of the County Palatine of Durham 2 (1820): 139
(Lumley monument in Chester-le-Street, co. Durham church: " ... inde
pater efficitur illius Thomae qui ex magni Regis Edovardi quarti filia
naturali, Richardum susceperat ..."), 140 (monumental inscription at
Chester-le-Street: "Sir Thomas Lumley, Knight, sonne of George Lord
Lumley, maried Elizabeth, daughter naturel to Kinge Edwarde the
fourth, and he died in the life of his father, and had issue Richard
Lord Lumley") (Elizabeth's arms: 1. France and England; 2. a plain
cross of Ulster; 3. as 2; 4. barry of six, on a chief three pallets,
between two esquires' bastions, dexter and sinister, an inescutcheon
Argent, Mortimer, over all a bar sinister), 162-164 (Lumley chart).
Surtees Soc. 41 (1862): 27 (1530 Vis. Durham) (Lumley pedigree:
"Thomas Lumley, son and heyre to George, maried Elisabeth, bastard
doughter to Kyng Edward the iiijth"). R. Surtees, Hist. & Antiq. of
the County Palatine of Durham 2 (1820): 163-164. H.S.P. 16 (1881):
189-190 (1563/4 Vis. Yorkshire) (Lumley pedigree: "Thomas Lord Lomley
son & heyr to George = Elsabeth bastard doughter to Kyng Edward the
Fourth"). J. Foster, Pedigrees Recorded at the Visitations of the
County Palatine of Durham (1887), pg. 216 (Lumley pedigree: "Thomas
Lumley, son and heire = Elizabeth, bastard dau. of Edward IV"). C.P.
7 (1929): 30 (sub Hylton); 8 (1932): 274 (sub Lumley); 10 (1945):
33-34. TAG 50 (1974): 81-86. M.S. Byrne, The Lisle Letters (1981)
[citing Harleian MS. 4033, f. 21 (23) v; Leland's Itinerary VI, f.
63]. Chris Given-Wilson & A. Curteis, Royal Bastards of Medieval
England (1984), pp. 160-161,179.Illegitimate child of Edward IV of England, by a mistress, Elizabeth
Wayte:i. ARTHUR PLANTAGENET (otherwise ARTHUR WAYTE), K.G., King’s
Spear, Esquire of the Body, Sheriff of Hampshire, Vice-Admiral of
England, Trier of Petitions in Parliament, Governor of Calais, Warden
of the Cinque Ports, Privy Councillor, born say 1475 (presumed to be
“my Lord the Bastard” mentioned in an Exchequer account
dated 1477, first occurs as an adult in 1501). He married (1st) 12
Nov. 1511 ELIZABETH GREY, suo jure Baroness Lisle, widow of Edmund
Dudley, Esq. (beheaded 18 Aug. 1510), and daughter and heiress of
Edward Grey, Knt., Viscount Lisle, by his 1st wife, Elizabeth,
daughter of John Talbot, Knt., Viscount Lisle. They had three
daughters, Frances (wife of John Basset and Thomas Monke), Elizabeth
(wife of Francis Jobson, Knt), and Bridget (wife of William Carden,
Knt.). In 1514 he was captain of the Vice-Admiral's ship "Trinity
Sovereign." He attended the King at the Field of Cloth of Gold in
1520. In consequence of his marriage, he was created 25 Apr. 1523
Viscount Lisle. In 1528 he purchased the manors of Segenworth, Chark,
Lee, Sutton, West Stratton, etc., Hampshire from his cousin, John
Wayte, Esq., of Titchfield. Arthur married (2nd) in 1529 Honor
Grenville, widow of John Basset, Knt. (died 31 Jan. 1522/9), and
daughter of Thomas Grenville, Knt., by his 1st wife, Isabel, daughter
of Otes Gilbert, Knt. They had no issue. He was imprisoned in the
Tower of London on suspicion of treason 19 May 1540. SIR ARTHUR
PLANTAGENET, Viscount Lisle, died there 3 Mar. 1541/2. His widow,
Honor, was buried at Logan, Cornwall 30 Apr. 1566. Modern descendants
(not traced). J. Burke, General & Heraldic Dictionary of the Peerages
... Extinct, Dormant, and in Abeyance (1831), pp. 433,513-514. G.F.
Beltz, Memorials of the Most Noble Order of the Garter (1841), pg.
clxxii. H.S.P. 2 (1870): 74-75 (1619 Vis. Leicester) (Gray pedigree:
"Elizab. [Gray] Nupta Edm. Dudley postea Arthur Plantagenet"); 16
(1881): 308-310 (1563/4 Vis. Yorkshire) (Talbot pedigree: "Elsabeth
[Talbot] doughter & sole heyre [1] = Edmond Dudley on of the Prevy
Consell to Kyng Henry 7th., [2]= Arthur Plantagenet bastard son to
Edward IV. 2 husband"). J.L. Vivian, Visitations of the County of
Devon (1895), pp. 46-47,569. D.N.B. 15 (1909): 1285-1287 (biog. of
Arthur Plantagenet). List of Early Chan. Proc. 5 (1912):
288,358,465,472.473; 6 (1922): 109,134. C.L. Scofield, Life and Reign
of Edward the Fourth 2 (1923): 56,161. C.P. 8 (1932): 63-68 (sub
Lisle). Cal. of Ancient Deeds - Series B Pt. 3 (List & Index Soc.,
vol. 113) (1975): B.10780, B.12180. Ancient Deeds Series BB (List &
Index Soc., vol. 137) (1977), pp. 80-81,83,90. M.S. Byrne, The Lisle
Letters 2 (1981): 63 (Arthur Plantagenet styled "cousin" by Margaret
Pole, Countess of Salisbury); 1 (1981): 481, 4{1981): 140 (instances
of Henry Pole, Lord Montagu, styled "cousin" to Arthur Plantagenet).
Exchequer Ancient Deeds - DD Series (List & Index Soc., vol. 200)
(1983), pp. 193,207. C. Given-Wilson & A. Curteis, Royal Bastards of
Medieval England (1984), pp. 158,161-174.Alleged illegitimate children of Edward IV of England, by an unknown
mistress (or mistresses), _____:i. GRACE PLANTAGENET, said to be present in 1492 on the funeral barge
of Queen Elizabeth Wydeville, widow of King Edward IV. C. Ross,
Edward IV (1974), pg. 316, foonote 2 (citing BM Arundel MS. 26, ff.
29v-30v). C. Given-Wilson & A. Curteis, Royal Bastards of Medieval
England (1984), pp. 158,161-174.ii. _____ PLANTAGENET (daughter), married (as his 1st wife) JOHN
AUDLEY (or TUCHET), younger son of John Audley (or Tuchet), Knt., 6th
Lord Audley, Lord Treasurer of England, by Anne, daughter of Thomas
Echingham, Knt. They had no issue. Collections for a History of
Staffordshire n.s. 12 (1909): 229. MS. pedigree of Audley family
dated 1618 on file at the William SaltCollection at the William Salt
Library in Stafford, England. (These citations kindly provided by
Peter Sutton).iii. MARY PLANTAGENET, married after 1485 (as his 2nd wife) HENRY
HARMAN, of Ellam (in Crayford), Kent, Clerk of the Crown to King Henry
VII, son of Thomas and Elizabeth Harman. HENRY HARMAN left a will
dated 1501, proved 1502 (P.C.C., 15 Blamyr), naming his deceased wife,
Agnes, his living wife, Mary, and eleven children, George, William,
Thomas, Roger, John, Henry, Robert, Elizabeth (wife of _____ Sparke),
Alice, Beatrice, and Anne. The maternity of the children is
uncertain, but at least the two youngest sons were by Henry Harman's
last wife, Mary, as indicated by Henry's will. Misc. Gen. et Her. 4th
ser. 2 (1908): 227-228 (Harman pedigree) (no identification of wives).
H.S.P. 74 (1923): 61-62 (1574 Vis. Kent) (Harman pedigree: "Henry
Harman Clarke of ye Crowne vnto H: 7 ... This man [Henry Harman] was
H: 7 man to whome he gaue the clarkeship of the Crowne and with all
gaue him the Crest belowe*, depick[t]ed one his armes which Crist was
giuen him after hee had maried with E: 4 daughter") (The latter
citation kindly supplied by James Trabue).Below is a list of the illegitimate children of King Edward IV of
England taken from variety of sources. The list includes no new
names, but I've commented on additional evidence which appears to
prove the parentage of Elizabeth, wife of Thomas Lumley. Gary Boyd
Roberts's useful book, RD 500, indicates that there are American
descendants of Elizabeth Lumley.There seems to be confusion in surviving records between King Edward
IV's mistresses, Dame Elizabeth Lucy and Elizabeth Wayte. I suspect
the two women were separate and distinct individuals. King Edward IV
is alleged to have had issue by Elizabeth Lucy prior to his marriage
to Queen Elizabeth Wydeville in 1464. I presume that issue was King
Edward IV's bastard daughter, Elizabeth Lumley, who married in or
before 1477. Elizabeth Wayte's son, Arthur, on the other hand,
doesn't occur in records as an adult until 1501 and didn't marry until
1511. This suggests a rather wide gap in ages between the two
bastards, Elizabeth Lumley and Arthur Plantagenet. My best guess is
that Elizabeth Lumley was born say 1460/2 and that Arthur Plantagenet
was born say 1475.If anyone has any corrections or additions to the list below, I'd
appreciate it if they would post them here on the newsgroup.Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
E-mail: royalancestry@msn.com
Elizabeth WYDEVILLE [Parents] was born about 1437 in Of, Grafton Regis, Northamptonshire, England. She died on 7 Jun 1492 in Bermondsey Abbey Bermondsey, Surrey, England. She was buried on 12 Jun 1492 in St. George's Chapel, Windsor, Berkshire, England. She married Edward IV King Of ENGLAND on 1 May 1464 in , Grafton Regis, Northamptonshire, England.
They had the following children:
F i Elizabeth of York Queen Of ENGLAND was born on 11 Feb 1465. She died on 11 Feb 1502/1503. F ii Mary Princess Of ENGLAND was born in Aug 1466 in Windsor Castle, Windsor, Berkshire, England. She died on 23 May 1482. F iii Cecily Princess Of ENGLAND was born on 20 Mar 1468/1469 in Of, Westminster, Middlesex, England. She died on 24 Aug 1507 in Abbey, Quarr, Isle Of Wight, England. She was buried in Abbey, Quarr, Isle Of Wight, England. M iv Edward V King Of ENGLAND was born on 4 Nov 1470 in Sanctuary, Westminster, Middlesex, England. He was christened in Westminster, Middlesex, England. He died in Jul 1483 in Tower Of London, Middlesex, England. He was buried in Tower Of London, Middlesex, England.
Presumed to have been murdered by his uncle, King Richard III.
http://tudorhistory.org/people/eyork/F v Margaret Princess Of ENGLAND was born on 10 Apr 1472 in Of, Westminster, Middlesex, England. She died on 11 Dec 1472. M vi Richard Prince Of ENGLAND was born on 17 Aug 1473 in Shrewsbury, Shropshire, England. He died about Jul 1483 in Tower Of London, Middlesex, England. He was buried in Tower Of London, Middlesex, England.
Presumed to have been murdered by his uncle, King Richard III.
http://tudorhistory.org/people/eyork/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_of_Shrewsbury%2C_1st_Duke_of_YorkF vii Anne Princess Of ENGLAND was born on 2 Nov 1475 in , Westminster, Middlesex, England. She died after 22 Nov 1511 in , Framlingham, Suffolk, England. She was buried in , Framlingham, Suffolk, England. M viii George Prince Of ENGLAND was born in Mar 1476/1477 in Windsor Castle, Windsor, Berkshire, England. He died about 1481. F ix Catherine Princess of ENGLAND was born about 14 Aug 1479 in , Eltham, Kent, England. She died on 15 Nov 1527 in Castle, Tiverton, Devonshire, England. She was buried on 3 Dec 1527 in , Tiverton, Devonshire, England. F x Bridget Princess Of ENGLAND was born on 10 Nov 1480 in , Eltham, Kent, England. She was christened in , Eltham, Kent, England. She died in 1517.
Edward IV King Of ENGLAND [Parents] was born on 28 Apr 1442 in , Rouen, Seine-Maritime, France. He was christened in Cathedrale, Rouen, Seine-Maritime, France. He died on 9 Apr 1483 in Palace, Westminster, Middlesex, England. He was buried on 18 Apr 1483 in St. George's Chapel, Windsor, Berkshire, England. He married Elizabeth WAYTE Mistress- Not Married in Not Married.
Other marriages:WYDEVILLE, Elizabeth
WAYTE, Elizabeth
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_IV_of_England
From: royalancestry@msn.com (Douglas Richardson)
A few days ago, I posted a list of the known illegitimate children of Edward IV, King of England (died 1483). Since posting, I've been contacted by two newsgroup members each of whom has added a new potential illegitimate child of King Edward IV. On my own, I've found additional sources for two of the previously identified illegitimate children. I've also found a reference to yet another alleged illegitimate daughter in a late visitation who reputedly married into the Musgrave family. I haven't included that child in the list below, as I haven't yet confirmed that such a child and marriage occurred.
If anyone has anything to add to the information below or possesses any information on a possible illegitimate daughter who married a Musgrave, please post that information here on the newsgroup or contact me at my e-mail address below.
Many thanks to Peter Sutton and James Trabue for sharing their information with me.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
E-mail: royalancestry@msn.com
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
List of Illegitimate Children of King Edward IVIllegitimate child of Edward IV of England, by an unknown mistress,
possibly Elizabeth Lucy:i. ELIZABETH PLANTAGENET, married before 1477 THOMAS LUMLEY, Knt., son
and heir apparent of George Lumley, Knt., Lord Lumley, by Elizabeth,
daughter and heiress of Roger Thornton, Esq. They had four sons,
Richard [Lord Lumley], John, George, and Roger, Esq., and three
daughters, Anne (wife of Robert Ogle, 4th Lord Ogle), Sibyl (wife of
William Hilton, Knt., de jure 9th Lord Hylton), and Elizabeth (wife of
Robert Cresswell, Esq.). SIR THOMAS LUMLEY was living 27 Oct. 1495,
and died prior to 1507. Descendants (not traced). [Note: Additional
evidence of Elizabeth's parentage may be seen in the papal
dispensation granted in 1489 for Elizabeth's son, Richard Lumley, to
marry Anne Conyers, they being related in the [3rd and] 4th degree of
kindred. A dispensation was needed for this marriage, as the two
parties were both descended from Ralph Neville, K.G., 1st Earl of
Westmorland, and his wife, Joan Beaufort (see Testamenta Eboracensia 3
(Surtees Soc., vol. 45) (1865): 355)]. Collins-Brydges, Peerage of
England 3 (1812): 703 (citing MS. E. 6, f. 5, b. in Offic. Arm.). R.
Surtees, Hist. & Antiq. of the County Palatine of Durham 2 (1820): 139
(Lumley monument in Chester-le-Street, co. Durham church: " ... inde
pater efficitur illius Thomae qui ex magni Regis Edovardi quarti filia
naturali, Richardum susceperat ..."), 140 (monumental inscription at
Chester-le-Street: "Sir Thomas Lumley, Knight, sonne of George Lord
Lumley, maried Elizabeth, daughter naturel to Kinge Edwarde the
fourth, and he died in the life of his father, and had issue Richard
Lord Lumley") (Elizabeth's arms: 1. France and England; 2. a plain
cross of Ulster; 3. as 2; 4. barry of six, on a chief three pallets,
between two esquires' bastions, dexter and sinister, an inescutcheon
Argent, Mortimer, over all a bar sinister), 162-164 (Lumley chart).
Surtees Soc. 41 (1862): 27 (1530 Vis. Durham) (Lumley pedigree:
"Thomas Lumley, son and heyre to George, maried Elisabeth, bastard
doughter to Kyng Edward the iiijth"). R. Surtees, Hist. & Antiq. of
the County Palatine of Durham 2 (1820): 163-164. H.S.P. 16 (1881):
189-190 (1563/4 Vis. Yorkshire) (Lumley pedigree: "Thomas Lord Lomley
son & heyr to George = Elsabeth bastard doughter to Kyng Edward the
Fourth"). J. Foster, Pedigrees Recorded at the Visitations of the
County Palatine of Durham (1887), pg. 216 (Lumley pedigree: "Thomas
Lumley, son and heire = Elizabeth, bastard dau. of Edward IV"). C.P.
7 (1929): 30 (sub Hylton); 8 (1932): 274 (sub Lumley); 10 (1945):
33-34. TAG 50 (1974): 81-86. M.S. Byrne, The Lisle Letters (1981)
[citing Harleian MS. 4033, f. 21 (23) v; Leland's Itinerary VI, f.
63]. Chris Given-Wilson & A. Curteis, Royal Bastards of Medieval
England (1984), pp. 160-161,179.Illegitimate child of Edward IV of England, by a mistress, Elizabeth
Wayte:i. ARTHUR PLANTAGENET (otherwise ARTHUR WAYTE), K.G., King’s
Spear, Esquire of the Body, Sheriff of Hampshire, Vice-Admiral of
England, Trier of Petitions in Parliament, Governor of Calais, Warden
of the Cinque Ports, Privy Councillor, born say 1475 (presumed to be
“my Lord the Bastard” mentioned in an Exchequer account
dated 1477, first occurs as an adult in 1501). He married (1st) 12
Nov. 1511 ELIZABETH GREY, suo jure Baroness Lisle, widow of Edmund
Dudley, Esq. (beheaded 18 Aug. 1510), and daughter and heiress of
Edward Grey, Knt., Viscount Lisle, by his 1st wife, Elizabeth,
daughter of John Talbot, Knt., Viscount Lisle. They had three
daughters, Frances (wife of John Basset and Thomas Monke), Elizabeth
(wife of Francis Jobson, Knt), and Bridget (wife of William Carden,
Knt.). In 1514 he was captain of the Vice-Admiral's ship "Trinity
Sovereign." He attended the King at the Field of Cloth of Gold in
1520. In consequence of his marriage, he was created 25 Apr. 1523
Viscount Lisle. In 1528 he purchased the manors of Segenworth, Chark,
Lee, Sutton, West Stratton, etc., Hampshire from his cousin, John
Wayte, Esq., of Titchfield. Arthur married (2nd) in 1529 Honor
Grenville, widow of John Basset, Knt. (died 31 Jan. 1522/9), and
daughter of Thomas Grenville, Knt., by his 1st wife, Isabel, daughter
of Otes Gilbert, Knt. They had no issue. He was imprisoned in the
Tower of London on suspicion of treason 19 May 1540. SIR ARTHUR
PLANTAGENET, Viscount Lisle, died there 3 Mar. 1541/2. His widow,
Honor, was buried at Logan, Cornwall 30 Apr. 1566. Modern descendants
(not traced). J. Burke, General & Heraldic Dictionary of the Peerages
... Extinct, Dormant, and in Abeyance (1831), pp. 433,513-514. G.F.
Beltz, Memorials of the Most Noble Order of the Garter (1841), pg.
clxxii. H.S.P. 2 (1870): 74-75 (1619 Vis. Leicester) (Gray pedigree:
"Elizab. [Gray] Nupta Edm. Dudley postea Arthur Plantagenet"); 16
(1881): 308-310 (1563/4 Vis. Yorkshire) (Talbot pedigree: "Elsabeth
[Talbot] doughter & sole heyre [1] = Edmond Dudley on of the Prevy
Consell to Kyng Henry 7th., [2]= Arthur Plantagenet bastard son to
Edward IV. 2 husband"). J.L. Vivian, Visitations of the County of
Devon (1895), pp. 46-47,569. D.N.B. 15 (1909): 1285-1287 (biog. of
Arthur Plantagenet). List of Early Chan. Proc. 5 (1912):
288,358,465,472.473; 6 (1922): 109,134. C.L. Scofield, Life and Reign
of Edward the Fourth 2 (1923): 56,161. C.P. 8 (1932): 63-68 (sub
Lisle). Cal. of Ancient Deeds - Series B Pt. 3 (List & Index Soc.,
vol. 113) (1975): B.10780, B.12180. Ancient Deeds Series BB (List &
Index Soc., vol. 137) (1977), pp. 80-81,83,90. M.S. Byrne, The Lisle
Letters 2 (1981): 63 (Arthur Plantagenet styled "cousin" by Margaret
Pole, Countess of Salisbury); 1 (1981): 481, 4{1981): 140 (instances
of Henry Pole, Lord Montagu, styled "cousin" to Arthur Plantagenet).
Exchequer Ancient Deeds - DD Series (List & Index Soc., vol. 200)
(1983), pp. 193,207. C. Given-Wilson & A. Curteis, Royal Bastards of
Medieval England (1984), pp. 158,161-174.Alleged illegitimate children of Edward IV of England, by an unknown
mistress (or mistresses), _____:i. GRACE PLANTAGENET, said to be present in 1492 on the funeral barge
of Queen Elizabeth Wydeville, widow of King Edward IV. C. Ross,
Edward IV (1974), pg. 316, foonote 2 (citing BM Arundel MS. 26, ff.
29v-30v). C. Given-Wilson & A. Curteis, Royal Bastards of Medieval
England (1984), pp. 158,161-174.ii. _____ PLANTAGENET (daughter), married (as his 1st wife) JOHN
AUDLEY (or TUCHET), younger son of John Audley (or Tuchet), Knt., 6th
Lord Audley, Lord Treasurer of England, by Anne, daughter of Thomas
Echingham, Knt. They had no issue. Collections for a History of
Staffordshire n.s. 12 (1909): 229. MS. pedigree of Audley family
dated 1618 on file at the William SaltCollection at the William Salt
Library in Stafford, England. (These citations kindly provided by
Peter Sutton).iii. MARY PLANTAGENET, married after 1485 (as his 2nd wife) HENRY
HARMAN, of Ellam (in Crayford), Kent, Clerk of the Crown to King Henry
VII, son of Thomas and Elizabeth Harman. HENRY HARMAN left a will
dated 1501, proved 1502 (P.C.C., 15 Blamyr), naming his deceased wife,
Agnes, his living wife, Mary, and eleven children, George, William,
Thomas, Roger, John, Henry, Robert, Elizabeth (wife of _____ Sparke),
Alice, Beatrice, and Anne. The maternity of the children is
uncertain, but at least the two youngest sons were by Henry Harman's
last wife, Mary, as indicated by Henry's will. Misc. Gen. et Her. 4th
ser. 2 (1908): 227-228 (Harman pedigree) (no identification of wives).
H.S.P. 74 (1923): 61-62 (1574 Vis. Kent) (Harman pedigree: "Henry
Harman Clarke of ye Crowne vnto H: 7 ... This man [Henry Harman] was
H: 7 man to whome he gaue the clarkeship of the Crowne and with all
gaue him the Crest belowe*, depick[t]ed one his armes which Crist was
giuen him after hee had maried with E: 4 daughter") (The latter
citation kindly supplied by James Trabue).Below is a list of the illegitimate children of King Edward IV of
England taken from variety of sources. The list includes no new
names, but I've commented on additional evidence which appears to
prove the parentage of Elizabeth, wife of Thomas Lumley. Gary Boyd
Roberts's useful book, RD 500, indicates that there are American
descendants of Elizabeth Lumley.There seems to be confusion in surviving records between King Edward
IV's mistresses, Dame Elizabeth Lucy and Elizabeth Wayte. I suspect
the two women were separate and distinct individuals. King Edward IV
is alleged to have had issue by Elizabeth Lucy prior to his marriage
to Queen Elizabeth Wydeville in 1464. I presume that issue was King
Edward IV's bastard daughter, Elizabeth Lumley, who married in or
before 1477. Elizabeth Wayte's son, Arthur, on the other hand,
doesn't occur in records as an adult until 1501 and didn't marry until
1511. This suggests a rather wide gap in ages between the two
bastards, Elizabeth Lumley and Arthur Plantagenet. My best guess is
that Elizabeth Lumley was born say 1460/2 and that Arthur Plantagenet
was born say 1475.If anyone has any corrections or additions to the list below, I'd
appreciate it if they would post them here on the newsgroup.Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
E-mail: royalancestry@msn.com
Elizabeth WAYTE.Elizabeth married Edward IV King Of ENGLAND Mistress- Not Married in Not Married.
If we put together what has been published about the mistresses of Edward
IV, we may get an interesting picture.Cahiers de Saint Louis, page 880, gives Edward IV
by Elisabeth/Elizabeth Waite
1.Arthur
by NN
2.Grace
3.Elisabeth/Elizabeth, she married her cousin Thomas, 4th Lord Lumley
(he wasn't a Lord Lumley!!!)The Plantagenet Encyclopedia, General Editor Elizabeth Hallam, page 160.
Arthur Plantagenet, died 1542. Illegitimate son of Edward IV of England and
Elizabeth Lucy, daughter of Thomas Wayte, a minor Hampshire gentleman. Their
affaire lasted from around Edward IV's accession in 1461 to his marriage to
Elizabeth Woodville in 1464.The Complete Peerage Volume VIII page 63.
Elizabeth suo jure Baroness Lisle, married (2) 12 November 1511
Arthur Plantagenet, illegitimate son of Edward IV. His mother's name is
unknown; by some said to be the "Lady Elizabeth Lucy" by others the
notorious Jane Shore, and by others one Elizabeth Waite, he himself being at
first known as Arthur Waite.Blood Royal, by Charles Mosley, pages65 and 166
He gives Edward IV nine legitimate children whereas Cahiers de Saint Louis
gives as a tenth legitimate child Brigitte 1480-1517.One less legitimate child but one more illegitimate one. However,
uncertainty is certainly indicated.
Edward IV is said to have had (a) a bastard son (Edward, of Wigmore, died
young 1468) by Eleanor, daughter of the 4th Earl of Ormonde.
====somehow I doubt this one, as wasn't Eleanor Butler supposedly engaged to
Edward IV? An engagement (if there was one) which should render the children
by Elizabeth Woodville illegitimate?(b) a bastard daughter (Elizabeth married Thomas Lumley and had issue) by a
woman referred to as "Lady Elizabeth Lucy" presumably wife of Sir William
Lucy who died in 1492 <snip> and (c) illegitimately either by Elizabeth (not
Jane) Shore (wife of William Shore, a London merchant) on whom he fathered a
bastard daughter Grace (living 1492, Or Elizabeth Waite;
===the link between Elizabeth Waite and what follows is, to me, not very
clear=====
4e.Arthur, surname originally Waite or Wayte, subsequently Plantagenet,
<snip> born circa 1470.What have we got from this? That Arthur was known as Arthur Waite, may give
an indication that his mother was Elizabeth Waite/Wayte. Elizabeth Hallam's
book makes this Elizabeth Waite a Mrs. Elizabeth Lucy. The Complete Peerage
makes this Mrs. Elizabeth a Lady Elizabeth Lucy. "Blood Royal" makes Lady
Elizabeth Lucy also mother of Elizabeth (Lumley).Elizabeth Hallam indicates as years of possible birth of the child(ren) of
Edward IV by Elizabeth Waite as about 1461 till 1464/5. "Blood Royal"
guesses that Arthur was born about 1470 and Richardson guesses "say 1475".
Richardson wants him to be as young as possible, because Arthur didn't marry
until 1511.If Arthur was born in 1463 he would have been about 48 when marrying,
if he was born in 1470 he would have been 41, if born in 1475 he would have
been about 36.However, we most not forget that he was in 1511 "only" the bastard brother
of the Queen, and also he married the widow of a disgraced man, disgraced
enough to be decapitated. And this, in my opinion, makes the age of Arthur,
when marrying, irrelevant, he could well have been 48 as easy as only 36.For the children of Thomas Lumley and Elizabeth "Plantagenet", Richardson
seems to follow Burke's Extinct Peerage,
one son, Richard (Lord Lumley)
and three daughters
Anne (wife of Robert Ogle)
Sibyl (wife of William Hilton
Elizabeth (wife of Robert Cresswell)Then follows a weird observation "Descendants (not traced)". Whose
descendants? Or, not traced by whom? Especially as earlier in his message he
notes that Gary Boyd Roberts indicated that there are American descendants
of Elizabeth Lumley.Cahiers de Saint Louis, which Richardson has learned to appreciate, gives
the same three daughters but instead of one son, gives four sons. The last
son, Roger, is important as he is an ancestor of Prince Charles (See Paget
O24907).That Richardson's remark "Descendants (not traced)" is ludicrous can also be
shown by the known acestry of just three of the children of Thomas and
Elizabeth Lumley (let's skip Roger, he has been shown to have descendants
till the present):Richard Lumley
he is an ancestor of the later Earls of Scarborough, HRH Richard, Duke of
Gloucester, Dukes of Buccleuch, Dukes of Northumberland, Marquess of
Exeter, Marquess of Linlithgow, Marquess of ZetlandAnne Lumley
she is ancestor of HM the Queen, Lady Diana Spencer, Sarah Ferguson, Dukes
of Atholl, Bedford, Northumberland, Richmond, Earls of Harewood and WarwickSybil Lumley
she is ancestor of HM the Queen, Lady Diana Spencer, Dukes of Abercorn,
Buccleuch, Devonshire, Marlborough, Westminster, Northumberland and the last
Duke of Leeds.Hope this is of some interest and helps.
As always, best wishes
Leo van de PasThere seems to be confusion in surviving records between King Edward
IV's mistresses, Dame Elizabeth Lucy and Elizabeth Wayte. I suspect
the two women were separate and distinct individuals. King Edward IV
is alleged to have had issue by Elizabeth Lucy prior to his marriage
to Queen Elizabeth Wydeville in 1464. I presume that issue was King
Edward IV's bastard daughter, Elizabeth Lumley, who married in or
before 1477. Elizabeth Wayte's son, Arthur, on the other hand,
doesn't occur in records as an adult until 1501 and didn't marry until
1511. This suggests a rather wide gap in ages between the two
bastards, Elizabeth Lumley and Arthur Plantagenet. My best guess is
that Elizabeth Lumley was born say 1460/2 and that Arthur Plantagenet
was born say 1475.If anyone has any corrections or additions to the list below, I'd
appreciate it if they would post them here on the newsgroup.Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
E-mail: royalancestry@msn.com
They had the following children:
F i Elizabeth PLANTAGENET was born about 1460.
Harrison BUSH [Parents] was born on 1 Mar 1791 in , Edgefield Co., , Sc. He died on 13 Jun 1870 in , Jones Co., , Ms. He was buried in , Jones Co., Indian Springs, Ms. He married Mahala SCOTT in 1825 in , , , Sc.
Mahala SCOTT was born on 28 Feb 1809 in , Edgefield Co., , Sc. She died on 18 Feb 1890 in , Jones Co., , Ms. She was buried in Laurel, Jones Co., Hickory Grove, Ms. She married Harrison BUSH in 1825 in , , , Sc.
They had the following children:
John BLOUNT was born about 1298 in Of, Sodington, Worcestershire, England. He died in 1358. He married Eleanor BEAUCHAMP about 1347 in Of, Sodington, Worcestershire, England.
Eleanor BEAUCHAMP [Parents] was born about 1307 in Of, Hatch, Somersetshire, England. She died on 13 Jun 1391. She married John BLOUNT about 1347 in Of, Sodington, Worcestershire, England.
They had the following children:
M i Walter BLOUNT was born about 1350. He died on 22 Jun 1403. M ii Thomas BLOUNT was born about 1352 in Of, Soddington, Worcestershire, England. He died in 1400 in (sp).
Pbepin II Quentin Count Of VERMANDOIS [Parents] was born about 818 in Of, Vermandois, Neustria. He died after 840 in Milan, , Italy. He married Mrs-Pbepin Countess Of VERMANDOIS.
Mrs-Pbepin Countess Of VERMANDOIS was born about 820 in Of, , , France. She married Pbepin II Quentin Count Of VERMANDOIS.
They had the following children:
M i Herbert I Count Of VERMANDOIS was born about 848. He died in 902. M ii Bernard Count Of SENLIS was born about 844 in Of, Vermandois, Neustria. He died on 28 Jan 893. M iii Pbepin II Count Of SENLIS was born about 846 in Of, Vermandois, Neustria. He died after 28 Jan 893.
Bernard King Of ITALY [Parents] was born in 797 in Of, Vermandois, Austrasia. He died on 17 Apr 818 in , Milan, , Italy. He married Cunigunde, Queen Of ITALY.
Cunigunde, Queen Of ITALY was born about 797 in , , , France. She died about 835. She married Bernard King Of ITALY.
They had the following children:
M i Pbepin II Quentin Count Of VERMANDOIS was born about 818. He died after 840.